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Re: R:32 Tin & Green vs Penryn

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:07 am
by Administrator
In Round 2, my character's leg got cut off in my opponent's entry.

then I had silly crystals pop up that made no sense to end the story

I think you guys forgot how battle comics work

Re: R:32 Tin & Green vs Penryn

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:39 am
by Spike
I think one of the biggest problems with WFA has always been this over-sensitivity involving characters. Sometimes it is justified (character deaths etc) and other times I think its a little silly.

Like in this case. So what, Cive died in a really anticlimactic way. Things won't always go your way in these battle comics unless you collab and write the whole thing together from the start (and even then there were cases that didn't work). There will also always be people who don't portray your character 100% correctly but that's to be expected sometimes since its not their character and they've never done a comic with them before (or in this case, its an alternative future so who cares if Lily is not who she was envisioned to be). In fact it just reeks of spite from both sides in this case and its a little silly by this point.

You guys made a comic with some of the best art I've seen from each of you on the site. Sure the story was kind of balls and a little uneventful in the long run (sorry guys), but the artwork itself was great. You all did good and should feel good that you guys made some of your best work.

Grow a spine, discard whatever the fuck you don't like about what happened to your character and move on.

I also have to agree with this:

And lastly I think that maybe Penryn and Luthor should have concentrated more on telling the story that involved all ckaracters, put a more spectacular closing to the ongoing story, instead of making half the entry about Lily and BF and the Valkyries which might have been better suitable for a warstory or epilogue or an earlier part of the comic.

However I am also not going to single out just Penryn and Luthor for it because there is also a self-centered sort of vibe from Tin and Green's pages as well where each side feels a lot more concentrated on their own characters. Which is to be expected, we all want our characters to be awesome and tell their stories. But you guys were all trying to do a huge collaboration story and obviously communication wasn't done very well between the two parties and ended up skewed in favour of whoever did the cycle. This isn't the first time this has happened, and it isn't the last time, and it isn't like this problem is exclusive to anyone in this battle alone. It happens, but I do think that some of this is pretty much repeat offence by this point so maybe it was a good thing it was brought up.

As for breaking any rules, Five hit the nail on the head because the alternate future = it didn't happen.

Better luck next time?

Re: R:32 Tin & Green vs Penryn

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:24 am
by AnTinwoodsman
Ein- I recall you being none to pleased with the leg removal nor the machine gun replacement- ah the good ole days eh old friend? But as you rolled with it so too shall I. I know you invested alot into Reana, as I know Luthor has invested much into Lily and Bullet- and I with Tin. We do care about our characters perhaps more than most when you put several thousand hours into them. I don't expect you to understand that Spike when you have 30 or so in your stable, none too terribly developed aside from Johnson. We typically visit grievous harm upon each others battlers but to significantly alter a character or commandeer them doesn't feel right.

I feel where you're coming from- its the future and thus things done there- to Lily or to Cive- don't truly affect the character as its being done outside continuity's canon. I just wish you could have given us some kind of showdown between Bullet and Cive, a clash of titans with bikers fighting clones and a massive melee- with some banter! Thats innate to Cives character, Bullet didn't even mention his poor treatment of Lily. We never saw them reunite in the future, there was room to characterize their relationship in the future, for them to make amends and heal it or not. At the heart of this story was a family theme- Tin/Cherry and Bullet/Lily that I was hoping would be developed in the same way the mentor/protegee was addressed in 3:10 to Yuma if you're familiar. The parallels between the characters made for a nice juxtaposition of good intentioned fathering and rebellious daughter that I wish had played out better. There was a lost opportunity there just barely redeemed with Lily and Laika in the end. This conclusion however was so tangential to the plot of the first three cycles, where you had a responsibility in the final cycle to tie up all loose ends, not create a bundle of new ones. The bit with the helmet was brilliantly written I'll admit.

As for my upset over the mishandling of characters-I suppose I just would have preferred you'd handled Tin with some manner of dignity and not made him go down like a bitch- the guy has fought through hell and back with an axe. :twisted:

Definitely not discounting your collaboration Luth, Pen, Ben and Five- its impressive and I'm thrilled you all worked together with us to conjure this massive and complex round, its quite a feat and I thank you for your contributions.

Artwise it is excellent, Penryn you especially strutted some impressive inks this round, you've seriously improved in your framing and characters in just a few short round and I give you props. Having guest artists granted you some time to churn out great quality pages. You even managed to develop the Valkyrie family unit, only to kill them off which was depressing.

I agree we could have communicated a bit better and certain liberties will be taken in preference of ones own characters, I had high hopes for this round because I greatly admire and respect all the creators in this round and our potential to work together to do something that hadn't been done in Arcadia before, it fell just shy of true greatness. Lessons learned for next time.

Re: R:32 Tin & Green vs Penryn

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:11 am
by penryn88
I'm offened, don't think mine was anymore a warstory then his. My 1st cycle had Tin all the way through, and my 2nd had cherry all the way through. In fact Green never drew my characters and Tin's story was all about Tinman and Cherry's relationship and mine were durpy extras. Despite all that I thought it was a good round. I may have been hard to work with, but I think Tin was too, artist are like that at times. I almost quit but decided to stick it out. Tin i really don't see how i commandeered your characters, sorry if what I did wasn't epic enough for your characters, but then again I didn't think what you with my characters was super duper awesome ether. To each his own I guess. I wasn't trying to make this an offensive end. I'm sorry to my guests, and I hope I didn't lose their trust. I wasn't trying to hoodwink you guys, I just wanted to do something cool with my characters story and wasn't trying to offend or exclude my opponents stuff. I didn't think it'd be received like this. Now Tin, Green, all this is is a WFA round, it's not that serious. Can we be adults and just drop it? I've said my piece on this subject, PM me if you have anything else to say about me or my cycle.

Re: R:32 Tin & Green vs Penryn

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:53 pm
by Green
Tin summed it up pretty well. My problem with the ending isn't really that much about how certain characters were presented/killed. I don't have any comparisons to draw my concerns to, but It's something along the line of watching a movie that ends without giving you closure, either by doing something you didn't agree with, or by ending "too soon".
By all means, and this goes for the record. You can treat my characters however you want (of course not killing them in canon, but this wasn't canon so.), I will never have any problem with that as long as it doesn't directly disregard the nature of the character itself. Character development, it's how it works. So what did I dislike about the ending then? The anti-climax. It's as simple as that. Everything you guys wrote and created was, by all means, amazing on it's own. But I felt it was out of place in terms of context. War story material, as Five mentioned.

But done is done, it's no big deal really, I just wanted this round (which was possibly the last one in the history of Arcadia) to go out with a massive climatic bang. There's no hard feelings or anything, and we'll all move on as normal. Spike had a fairly good point regarding how we're all a bit attached to our characters, and I admit that I easily have that flaw as a storyteller and artist. So if nothing else, we'll learn something from that; The story itself should always be above the characters in it.

Re: R:32 Tin & Green vs Penryn

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:32 am
by Spike
I don't expect you to understand that Spike when you have 30 or so in your stable, none too terribly developed aside from Johnson. We typically visit grievous harm upon each others battlers but to significantly alter a character or commandeer them doesn't feel right.

Edit: Fuck it. I had a gigantic post here basically saying how stupid this line fucking is, but I've got rid of it because its going to just fan more flames and this community and I obviously don't see eye to eye on a lot of things. I do have the original post saved though in the event that someone wants to see my brutally honest opinion against all the stuff you said Tin (thanks though for insulting my intelligence here though Tin by the way it was real cool.). Oh man even this post is just coming across bitter I better stop. All I know is that I don't think I fit here at all anymore, its a lot different than when I first joined, its going to go a lot different than what I would like ('cause I am in the minority opinion here) and I guess I'm just gonna have to accept this.

Re: R:32 Tin & Green vs Penryn

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:18 pm
by Einheit12
Could we please stop this senseless discussion?
What is even the subject matter of this aggressive discussion anymore?
I think everyone involved in this battle should take a second to think about what we are doing here.

These are battle comics. Two parties create a few pages in their free time featuring their characters and their opponent's characters. There are no requirements as to how climatic or dramatic these pages have to be. Sometimes it just doesn't go the way you imagined a fight to go. Sometimes the results aren't as great as they could be, or as you imagined them to be.

Most of us have at one point (or in my case, several) felt like their battles didn't go as well as they had wished they would.

But I doubt I have never seen anyone being so immature about it before. I am a bit disappointed by all of you.

Please think about what you are arguing about here - You feel your opponent's work wasn't "worthy" of your own.
Are you kidding me?

Also, Spike, please don't quit because of something one person said. Me and many others would hate to see you leave. I don't even know what's happening in this thread anymore.

I am closing this thread before this completely gets out of hand.

Re: R:32 Tin & Green vs. Penryn

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:12 am
by Einheit12
Parties Tied. Everyone wins.